The problem is with car salesmen, as a (non-auto) salesman myself, I understand how to creatively massage a deal to provide the customer with a good deal and myself with a good commission. I also know that the nicer the customer, the better the chance of a fair deal for both. The mean customer usually gets a slightly better deal because the salesman strips off the nice talk and looks at it as a quick (but skinny) deal and chalks it up to volume. Car salesmen, on the other hand have gotten it to such an extreme that there is a VERY wide rage of prices paid for the same car, and no-one trusts what anyone is saying. IF they preserved pricing structure, they would all make more money, while selling the same amount of cars, would be trusted more and save themselves, their competition and the prospective customers all the negotiating nonsense – we call it “the race to zero”. They might even find some customer loyalty!